Post by Amaterasu Solar on Dec 30, 2016 20:35:06 GMT
Our most recent member, pyragorgon, asked that I copy Our discussion from here: www.thedailysheeple.com/video-finally-chemtrails-debunked_022015#comment-3074920840 into this forum. Here goes. I started with a comment from 2 years ago that pyra responded to yesterday:
AmaterasuSolar • 2 years ago
Some of Us are old enough to remember contrails. They were gone in minutes. What a shill that weatherman is! Solution to the psychopaths spraying?
T.A.P. - You're It!
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/2/abundance-paradigm-foundational-writings
On Twitter AmaterasuSolar
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"Did You give an oath and find it's bait and switch? Well, there is no oath then, is there?"
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can put that down and pick up far better tools."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark" energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
Pyra Gorgon • a day ago
Meaningless platitudes. Give substance. I checked your "tap your it" website and found it unfavorable. To begin with, it nagged me to turn off my ad blocker, so that tells me you are more in this for a dime than a dialog.
AmaterasuSolar • 21 hours ago
Dear One, that is a free forum offered by Proboards. All ad revenue goes to THEM. I don't have an income, am homeless and destitute, or to be sure I would "upgrade" My forum to have no ads. I HATE ads. AND to be sure, I am motivated to solve for the psychopaths in control. Guess You didn't bother actually reading any of My articles... This one is a good one:
Human Sovereignty in an Ethical Solutocracy
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/80/human-sovereignty-ethical-solutocracy
"What Human does not deserve leisure and industry of
interest, if (S)He chooses all behavior Ethically?"
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"Did You give an oath and find it's bait and
switch? Well, there is no oath then, is
there?"
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to
the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can
put that down and pick up far better tools."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove
the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark"
energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of
war."
Pyra Gorgon • 21 hours ago
Homeless and destitute yet still able to create ProBoards, run Twitter and social media accounts with lots of blogs, and have Internet access? Amazing. Every homeless one I help is more worried about another pair of socks or a hot meal over an Internet connection and pontificating on the woes of dystopic society through social media.
As for your platitudes, again, you toss more at me, but without context they are just word soup. For instance,
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can
put that down and pick up far better tools."
I say they have far more tools than that, namely violence, lying, fear, social retardation by not teaching morality, deception, fraud, poisoning of the mind and body, creating system-evil constructs to enable grand scale racketeering, DNA corruption of children to weaken and imprint evil upon a person, satanic ritual abuses, etc. Yet, you stop at just "money". Not very thorough of an answer, Amaterasu.
If you want to pretend to be the Japanese sun goddess who stamps out evil, you need to discover every place it hides. Juss sayin'.
AmaterasuSolar • 20 hours ago
I have no idea why You are so hostile. FYI, I am blessed to have friends. I bounce around, sleeping on Their floors, using Their wifi, on a computer My sister begrudgingly got for Me (We're not much on speaking terms...). And also, FYI, all those "tools" would not be tools in a society where We remove the need for money and top-down controlmind. These are the twin towers to psychopaths in power.
And FYI... That is My signature, not "platitudes." Get off Your high horse. Maybe read what I have written, rather than choosing jerk behavior, eh?
Pyra Gorgon • 20 hours ago
I'm not being hostile. I am being to the point and this is my method when dealing with unknown elements that appear to be B.S.'ing me. Don't worry, I get nicer with further dialog once I understand I am not talking to a troll, a shill, a disinfo agent, a webbot AI prototype, or a garden variety idiot.
Okay, so all those lines are part of your signature. Didn't know that. I'll move on, then.
I don't have time to read all your stuff, but if I had to read just one thing, what would you have me read from your writings? Link please.
Be blessed, Amaterasu Solar.
AmaterasuSolar • 20 hours ago
My seminal piece, The End of Entropy. That got Me banned from (CIA-run) AboveTopSecret forums a number of years ago, I guess it was. It's the first piece (after the list of contents post) in this thread called The Abundance Paradigm Foundational Writings, and is an analysis, as opposed to an article:
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/2/abundance-paradigm-foundational-writings
It may look longer than it is - large font makes it easier to read, but look longer. In fact, most of My writings are quite short.
I have been working to get this information to the tipping point for over 8 years. It is likely the reason I have been offered jobs (under the name corporation - the strawman name), but before I even fill out paperwork, before I give the SS#, I get given weird excuses and downright lies as an excuse why I don't have the job - IF I even manage to make contact beyond leaving copious messages on machines. Took Me nearly a decade to conclude the highest likelihood is that someOne does not want Me to succeed.
Pyra Gorgon • 19 hours ago
I read your work The End of Entropy.
You have my attention.
I think what you wrote struck me on a multitude of levels, some stand alone, some interconnecting, some incongruent, some synergistic, and some syncretistic.
Pyra Gorgon • 18 hours ago
Oh, and THANK YOU for widening my knowledge-base. I had no idea the word STIGMERGIC existed. So I had to go chase it down. I found that it was coined by Pierre-Paul Grasse in the 1950's and the best definition I could glean from the writings was , self-organises due to the collective input of large numbers of individual termites performing extraordinarily simple actions in response to their local environment. from ...
Good use of the word, Amaterasu Solar!
AmaterasuSolar • 17 hours ago
Humble thanks for reading! I am honored to have made an impression, and delivered a wee bit of knowledge. My definition of stigmergy is:
A system of governance based on the exchange of information within all societies between autonomous Individuals.
Our natural stigmergy is constricted with the artificial overlay of top-down controlmind (government).
Pyra Gorgon AmaterasuSolar • 17 hours ago
I can agree with that statement and perspective on things.
However, the thing with the termites from Pierre-Paul Grasse's observations ought to be considered, also. He did incorporate other parameters you neglect in your definition, namely, the simplicity of a mundane task that 'stigmergically' adds to those doing same around you, like termites chewing a tunnel in wood, bees forming comb and nursing brood, ants foraging, gnats seeking, and locusts swarming and landing/ bird swarm migratory patterns.
You have 'robots' do all sort of 'mundane' tasks, thus doing that stigmergically necessary 'mundane and simplistic tasks' you attribute to human society. I disagree. I believe humans will not do as you predict they will do 'stigmergically' and that the robots with the AI they are building will create that stigmergically positive communication society. Does this make sense to you? The attribution you give to creator rather than the ACTOR of it. As if the 'queen' of the hive controls all stigmergical tasks. They don't.
AmaterasuSolar • 16 hours ago
To be frank, Would love to have this convo on My forum... [smile] I don't see any "creator" or "queen..." The queen in an insect colony is for reproduction only, relying on stigmergy to take care of her, as one seed in the insects' parameters is to protect and take care of her. What I have is not so much robots doing the mundane...as I do having them fill in where We do not have enough Humans who WANT to do necessary work. Where stigmergy will be most beneficial is in problem-solving. One of Our seed parameters is to solve problems that affect Us. The leaders will emerge for each problem that might crop up, based on the information and ideas They offer relative to the problem at hand.
I am very much opposed to the Venus Project... Where the controlmind is AI and Human choices are reduced to mere preferences in what things They want. I think We can rise to better than that. [smile]
If You have time, You might want to read some of My articles on The Abundance Paradigm beyond that thread.
Pyra Gorgon • 16 hours ago
I'm familiar with Jacques Venus Project and all that jazz. I can honestly that I am enamored of the idea but realize it is not workable and rife with unintended consequences, nothwithstanding the obvious ignoring of elephant in the room.
I did read the rest of your writings on that thread. You had repetitive sections that facilitated a quicker purview. There are many points I differ from you on, but in the vision of it all, I am in full support of. It is utopic, really. But again, we are not taking the elephant in the room into account in our thinking about things.
As for your idea about the queen, I own the knowledge that she does far more than just breed and lay eggs. In bees, the queen regulates the mood and temperament of the colony. She also determines the hive memory of the worker bees and forager bees. Other bug colonies depending on purpose and place in nature have similar things the queen does besides just breed. The corollaries to this are parables spiritual in nature. I doubt you wish to go there yet, but later you must. Your "3 laws of ethics" are inadequate for a society to prosper by. You're going to have to revisit once laid foundations of your moral thinking, Amaterasu.
You can copy/paste this over to your forum or whatever. I am not ashamed of my words.
AmaterasuSolar • 7 hours ago
The reason I would rather be discussing things on My forum is that, with this old computer, for some reason, this page takes forever to load. The forum is much faster. LOL!
I don't see The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.) as a utopia. I see it merely as VASTLY better than what We have now. Not sure what elephants You see...
Relative to the queen... Does she not rely on information from her workers to determine moods, etc? Is she telepathic that this "hive memory" is disbursed? Or does she simply pass the data on to each worker that comes by?
Before I ask what is inadequate in the three Laws, I might ask what is the definition You have in this frame of "prosper?" Presently We are beset with "laws," the number of which no One knows, which make virtually everything We might do illegal somewhere. All of them either address the three Laws, or (the vast bulk of them) something directly or indirectly related with commerce/profit for some.
With the removal of money, with the end of accounting for Human energy added into a system that accounts for Human energy added, all the commerce/profit "laws" are moot, leaving a redundancy in a legal system of the three Laws. (In fact, the legal system is the loathsome vine that supports the twin towers to psychopaths in power, thwarting Ethics more often that it serves them.)
If all Humans chose Their behavior Ethically, within those three Laws, and with scant MOTIVE to break the Laws, what problem do You see arising?
Pyra Gorgon • 6 hours ago
Good morning, Amaterasu! Thank you for responding outside of your forum and also by not getting defensive, rather engaging in dialog. :-) I'll quote you to comment by line to keep it organized.
I don't see The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.) as a utopia. I see it merely as VASTLY better than what We have now. Not sure what elephants You see...
I do, and am sure most others would classify your TAP as a Utopic dream based upon existential, carnally-minded people. Personally, I think your TAP is a great idea in theory and if we could change that "elephant in the room" (which I'll address at the end of my response), such a thing would be heavenly for all and sundry. Really, to have leisure to do whatever instead of work like a slave for shelter, food, etc. opens up more mental capital for other pursuits...(maybe), free energy would definitely destroy money in it's current uses as fiat (as you posit, there would be no need for it given the paradigm you outline). I read the entire forum, from End of Entropy to Liberty & American Way. Getting an overview from all your words puts each article/chapter into a larger meta-message communication, I would say that you over-simplify and place too much emphasis just on the money aspect. We're going to tie this in later.
Before I ask what is inadequate in the three Laws, I might ask what is the definition You have in this frame of "prosper?"
"Prosper" means just that: to thrive, to develop spiritually into higher purposed beings mentally, emotionally; to grow happily to not worry and fret , get fat, enjoy life, having the land give up its bounty and blessings. To have many children in health and vitality. That sort of prosper is what I mean.
Presently We are beset with "laws," the number of which no One knows, which make virtually everything We might do illegal somewhere.
First off, men do not make "laws", that is a philosophical blunder and a spiritual blinder. Men make LEGALITIES. God makes Laws. Laws carry consequences, always. If you fall from a cliff, law of gravity extends immediate consequences. Moral laws carry consequences, also. They are internalized and corrupt the soul, but the consequences are evident. Ever wonder why really evil people look evil? Violating one of men's LEGALITIES only carries consequences if you are caught. Speed 30 miles over speed limit on an abandoned Texan road and nothing happens, no magical ticket appears and no cop drops from the sky to haul you off to jail. Why? Because legalities are meaningless unless some fool chooses to oppress another with them by application of force.
All of them either address the three Laws, or (the vast bulk of them) something directly or indirectly related with commerce/profit for some.
Now it's time to discuss that elephant in the room. Your 3 laws of ethics are (for those reading to follow along)
#1.Do not willfully hurt or kill anOther
#2.Do not willfully take or damage anOther's property
#3.Do not willfully defraud anOther
#4. Do not willfully lead another to violate 1-4.
You need #4. People in authority rarely do the evil themselves. Instead, they corrupt others through lying, deception, false narrative building, etc. To say defraud is covered in #3 misses the point, it is not fraud as it is interpreted there because fraud involves something related to something tangible: to defraud by writing a bad check, etc. To defraud an idea is called DECEPTION/DECEIT/ LYING (or other words denoting same) You need to separate fraud from deceit. Why? Because the forms of behavior are different, to over-simplify reduces the clarity and adds nothing because of its brevity. This #4 will also stop a lot of the order-follower nonsense that people thinks magically gets them off the morality hook for their actions.
Relative to the queen... Does she not rely on information from her workers to determine moods, etc? Is she telepathic that this "hive memory" is disbursed? Or does she simply pass the data on to each workers that comes by?
In honeybees, yes, she does rely on many factors: hive temp, hive activity, nurse bee hum on frames of brood, her own egg laying cycle, humidity, food availability, and whim. Sometimes the queen is grouchy. Can't tell you why. They work both ways, from drones workers and foragers sending signals, and the queen interpreting those and releasing pheremones to regulate hive activity. There is no telepathy, it is all done through chemical signals of pheremones, and vibratory patterns of wings, abdomen dancing, and such. The methods they use to communicate are easily disrupted: take the hive apart and the queen loses her built-up scents in the frames, causing colony stress and chaos. The queen passes info on through pheremones. Forager bees communicate via chemical signals AND vibratory dancing on the "front porch". I've studied them and have made some connections: foragers begin facing direction for start, if they wiggle their front legs alot it means it is a high fly and if they drag their abdomen it is a ground objective for the dance directions. Other things too, but the stigmergic reaction you think is not all instinctual programming, the 'hive memory" I refer to is not instinctual, but retained knowledge one generation of forager bees passes on to the next nurse bees as they graduate to foragers. This is why some chemical agents are so bad for bees: some give them dementia and they forget and must expend extra energy always "rediscovering" the flower patches and nectar rich spots. Not only that, but the young foragers seem unable to grasp what the dances mean.
Termites and ants do not have a complex society like honey bees so their stigmergic activities are closer to your visionary use of that word. But bees do have higher organization to their 'stigmergic' activities with the 'top down/ bottom up' process you envision with your global website for a solutocracy.
With the removal of money, with the end of accounting for Human energy added into a system that accounts for Human energy added, all the commerce/profit "laws" are moot...[trunc]...If all Humans chose Their behavior Ethically, within those three Laws, and with scant MOTIVE to break the Laws, what problem do You see arising?
Now for the elephant in the room you do not discuss even once:
Everything here did not magically form out of nothing, despite what idiotic evolutionists and other fairytale spinsters would have you believe. There is a Spirit, a Consciousness, a 'Higher Principle', GOD, the Uncaused Cause. God made everything and He did it for His purposes, not our own. Everything you witness in history, including all the ugly evil and suffering and such in the world today, has been for purpose and meaning. IT did not just happen because of dumb luck or contrived stupidity.
This is where your TAP idea runs afoul. The ELEPHANT in the ROOM: GOD. This is why TAP cannot work, because God has made things, including us, to not work within what you propose. Your 3 laws of ethics breaks down once you include PURE EVIL people into the equation: SATANISTS who believe "Do as thou wilt" is the all of their 'law'. These are the naturally evil people who are the psychopaths you rail against. What will your society do when a group of men decide to go marauding just to satisfy bloodlust? Some people enjoy watching others die because they love death. They are REBELLIOUS to the NATURAL ORDER, why would they follow YOUR 3 rules for ethics? What then? You now have sin entering your Utopic TAP paradigm. These people cannot be rehabilitated, they cannot be negotiated with, and they cannot be trusted.
The 3 laws of ethics are incomplete because we are more than physical carnal critters. How do you teach people spiritual principles they are not born with? Compassion, charity, love, forgiveness, mercy, truth, justice, equity, beauty, wisdom, understanding, genuineness...these and many more are all spiritual in nature. They are easily taught but difficult to learn without life experience. This is why the world is so evil ugly and bad: it is the hurdle to overcome to achieve that godlike character. In your TAP world, we would have nothing to 'overcome' and as they say, "Idle hands are the workshop of the devil". What about people who just do not have any interests other than breeding all day, eating and getting drunk and high? Maybe they dont EVER want to design something or maybe they think programming and helping others is boring and stupid. Lazy is learned behavior because humans are animals and conservation of energy is a paramount instinctual attitude. Animals don't just run around building stuff because it pleases their eyes. They build from necessity and stop once sufficient. People of higher spirit do not do that, how do you reconcile those two types of people?
Lastly, GOD is moving with planned purpose. Things are coming to a close, and your "TAP" reminds me of something God's elect children might do in organizing their society with God being their origin point for ethics and morality. Only a moral and good humanity can affect the changes of TAP.
I'm telling you right now, expect this, that the future holds a One World Government, a one world leader, and a one world religion under a one world false prophet. There will be death, fire, destruction on grand scale such as the world has not seen, the ecocide of our nature will be complete, famine and starvation will be prevalent, there will be no natural anything as everything is corrupted beyond recognition, stupidity and ignorance will the the standard narrative, fear and terror will guide choices and morality rivers of blood will mark the brutality and evil, and then the end of this before it is remade. This is why every utopia does not work: God did not create this world to be a utopia. And since God is the author of reality, we cannot change this.
AmaterasuSolar • 5 hours ago
Thank You for Your detailed reply. I will get into My spiritual experience in a bit, but for now, I will address the psychopaths. Let Us consider the fact that about 1% of Us are genetically psychopathic (primary). Another 5%ish are secondary psychopaths, created through mind control/severe abuse at the hands of the primary psychopaths. Without money, the only power over Others a psychopath has lies in personal charisma. If the Laws are upheld by 94% of Us (or even 90%...) even a group of psychopaths are a piffle in the scheme of things. With free energy and the web to report things, problems, the 90-94% could descend upon the group freely - transportation would be free for all, after all - and solve the problem Ethically the group is creating. Taking Them out of social circulation (locking Them up), trying Them via the web, setting Ethical consequences.
As for defrauding... I see that as meaning ANY harmful mis/disinformation spread willfully.
As for God... I had an experience, one day, a few years back now, where suddenly... I was everything. All time, all space, all dimensions - and simultaneously, I was nothing. No time, no space, no dimension. When I "returned" (if that is the appropriate term) I had awareness. Not of the details of anyOne's life (having been all Beings...), but that Consciousness is God creating the Now. That all things are Consciousness at some level of awareness. That We therefore are co-Gods co-creating the Now. Free will is the choice to create better, nothing much, or worse. That We, when awareness hits the tipping point that We CAN create (co-create) better on this planet, WILL.
I have no need for any Other to believe this. What One sees in spirituality is Theirs. But surely it cannot be argued that Now is not a culmination of what Each has chosen in the past. It is what I work with, and I have chosen to step up to the plate and create, to the best of My ability, better on this planet.
Pyra Gorgon AmaterasuSolar • 4 hours ago
I'm enjoying this dialog with you. It seems we are going somewhere meaningful. Hopefully other's might 'stigmergically' add their own thoughts, objections, praises, concerns, etc. to our dialog. Let us put your theory of human ideological stigmergy to the test!
Lat things first: I am not going to proselytize you or anything like that. My spirituality is foundational, not 'fundamental'; regenerative, not 'conservative'. I hold to relationship over revelation, and meaning over means. The definition for my 'religion' is found in James 1:26-27, "26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Hope that helps you understand my position and starting point for my perspective, Amaterasu. Like you, I do not "need" you to believe as I do. Each person shall work out their own salvation in fear and trembling. ;-) Good luck to you on your path!
As for your disagreement about fraud vs. deception/ deceit, I cannot say that I find your answer satisfactory. You may understand it with demanding clarity, but others not so much. You are going to have to use more words because things are a bit more complicated than just a few laws of ethics. There is a FOUNDATIONAL difference between the connotative use of FRAUD and Lying. Yes, fraud involves lying, but not all lying involves fraud because fraud pertains to things not thoughts/ ideas. You 'defraud' someone who buys your house and you do not tell them about the termite damage to the subfloor. You have also LIED to them by OMISSION, but that is not the same as deceiving them into thinking termites are actually GOOD for the house and subfloor. Now if they directly ASK you if the house has termites and you say NO, then you have defrauded them through use of deception. Do you get the subtle yet critical difference where the LYING is really corruption of truth and FRAUD is the use of lying to gain worldly things, like money, sex, prestige, whatever? I'm not going to belabor this point, perhaps just meditate on this point some and go from there. Like an onion, it's layers. ;-)
Let Us consider the fact that about 1% of Us are genetically psychopathic (primary). Another 5%ish are secondary psychopaths, created through mi...[trunc]
Okay. I don't know if that is right or not, we'll go with those numbers you posted for sake of discussion. Because I do know that they exist, they can teach others to be like themselves, but it seems the ability to teach others psychopathy is because of the dark occultic knowledge of the human psyche, something you toy with in your TAP philosophy. "Stigergy" is a phenomena that can be used to evil effect, as our social engineers and mind control operators have done. Just as morality is taught, so is psychopathy.
You have an insurmountable hurdle to your TAP and that is the ORIGIN of it. How do you start such a thing given the current situation of psychopaths, the laws and idiocy of people, the mind control and violence? Let us for sake of argument say that ALMIGHTY GOD came down, wiped out all the evildoers, wicked, psychopaths, and degenerates. We now have a totally screwed up world trashed out by the past human history, but now evil has been eradicated, like a HARD RESET might do....NOW you install your TAP paradigm...you and others like yourself go out, proselytize others to your rationale and reasoning, and the process begins. Money is gone, etc. TAP can really take off then...no obstacles! YAY for humanity....we begin to clean up the world, find solutions to big ugly problems like Fukushima and global fish deaths in poisoned oceans...cities are rebuilt, economic principles change from scarcity-based competition to collaborative efforts where each gets "according to their need" (sounds communist in language, doesn't it?)...
...but ALMIGHTY GOD ain't coming down to wipe out the bad guys just so we can go do our own thang. So we are stuck here at the starting line but cant get past the waving of the checkered flag. How do you wipe out all the greedy evil wicked folk who will jam up your TAP paradigm? I'm telling you, they will NEVER go along with your ideas because your ideas would make a happy world and these types WORSHIP DEATH, misery, perversion, and destruction. They have demons, whatever. They're bad apples, through and through. Some desire things just so others cannot have them, not because they themselves want them.
And where are all these robots going to come from? What incentive do people have to donate the robots they are making, or anything else outside the current money paradigm? Who will be those guards in those prisons you mention to lock up the psychopaths? Where is your moral authority to lock up another like an animal in a cage? Humans are made in the image of GOD, the penalty for psychopathy is death, not incarceration. In fact, no where in any of God's law does it proscribe for incarceration and the reason for this is because it opens up too many unintended consequences for perverse incentive and for spiritual and emotional corruption. In your TAP, what is to keep such a thing workable? I would not work a prison even if paid, how many will go do such things being UNPAID? It's ridiculous to imagine that people would engage in such without clear gain.
I love your idea and am trying to sort out how to springboard it into action, but I keep finding more and MOAR objections and incongruencies that do not fit reality. Reality is the final arbiter of such things; has reality ever shown such a paradigm to exist? What do we have to draw from for reference point historically?
Let's draw more minds into this discussion, would you mind this?
AmaterasuSolar • 3 hours ago
The difference between abundancism and communism is that, in communism One is expected to give according to ability and receive according to need. In abundancism, One is expected to give according to Ones bliss and receive according to One's desire. Also, in communism there is the top-down structure still putting Some above Others persistently, while in abundancism the structure is bottom-up, with no One above anOther except in knowledge and ideas in solving for problems, and then only while the problem persists.
The progression I see is:
1. Share awareness to the tipping point of what We CAN co-create, the Laws, and all
2. Grassroots, We experiment with free energy, offering successes freely to All (a lesser probability by far is One in "the know" releasing the information to Humanity...)
3. When free energy is flowing, the cost of things will drop...and drop...and drop to the point that it is more energy than it's worth to collect the penny for the house, the car, etc.
4. Those who care and can create the servers and network for governance, maybe have a contest for the best open-source site to serve the needs of governance
5. Those who care and can create robots to fill in where needed
6. Specifically withdraw consent from the systems in place now, the ones that inherently promote psychopaths to power (this can happen at any point along the line - I have withdrawn My consent already)
In the end, We will create this better system.
While I agree that the psychopaths in control would not "go for it," if 90% of Us did not consent to Their systems, what power would They have? They NEED Our consent, outright or implied (by virtue of being told in esoteric ways, not fully informing Us, unEthically assuming that We have enough data, and Us not specifically saying We do not consent).
As for the third Law... Lying to "deceive" without some material gain is something I guess I don't grasp. Only in a spiritual sense, and only if One has the notion that what One believes in that realm is important, would "deceiving" be important to One. Personally, I see All of Us responsible for Our own discernment in that realm. What One believes does not create in the Now; only the behavior One chooses. So in the Now, defrauding for material gain is what I see the Law as being, and the only socially important aspect.
Incentives for all things, including creating robots, comes from the love of doing it (and I know LOTS of People who love to - or would love to if They could afford it - create robots) and the social currency it brings. If You loved to create robots and there was a problem a robot could solve, would You not offer Your skills to the end of solving the problem for the reputation, the thanks, the lauds, the love, the fame, the bragging rights, and all that, that You would receive?
Social currency is accounted for, not by token, but in the hearts and minds of Each of Us.
I do not speak in morals - they are subjective. In some places it is VERY immoral for a woman to wear a bikini in public. In other places, it is not so much. Where is Our Ethical "authority" in solving for One who has broken any Law of Ethics to the point of confinement? I think it is clear that, even in nature, steps in the societies are taken to solve for problems an individual might create, including the killing of said individuals. As I say We have no need of killing such Individual Humans, that being sentient and sapient, We can make higher choices, confinement will solve for the problem Individual. It is an Ethical solution.
Suppose the confinement is automated... And it could be a house and garden or whatever else the Ones who care choose. One possibility might be that the One confined must remain so until no One cares enough about Them being confined to press a button every day to keep the confinement continuing. I leave the details of each case to be determined by Those who care. I expect many creative solutions. And there may even be Ones who would love to care for the needs of the incarcerated. But I don't think They are necessary.
As for "history" (what We know of it - MUCH is not available to Us as a whole), We have game-changers. Never in history have We had free energy. Never in history have We had robots. Never in history have We had the web. Therefore, this has no point We can point to and say, "See?" This is uncharted.
Pyra Gorgon • an hour ago
Hiya Amaterasu;
(please go ahead and copy/paste our convo over to your forum if you like. I did join it and mentioned our conversation to some to see if they would add their understanding. You mentioned stigmergy... ;-)
AmaterasuSolar • 2 years ago
Some of Us are old enough to remember contrails. They were gone in minutes. What a shill that weatherman is! Solution to the psychopaths spraying?
T.A.P. - You're It!
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/2/abundance-paradigm-foundational-writings
On Twitter AmaterasuSolar
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"Did You give an oath and find it's bait and switch? Well, there is no oath then, is there?"
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can put that down and pick up far better tools."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark" energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
Pyra Gorgon • a day ago
Meaningless platitudes. Give substance. I checked your "tap your it" website and found it unfavorable. To begin with, it nagged me to turn off my ad blocker, so that tells me you are more in this for a dime than a dialog.
AmaterasuSolar • 21 hours ago
Dear One, that is a free forum offered by Proboards. All ad revenue goes to THEM. I don't have an income, am homeless and destitute, or to be sure I would "upgrade" My forum to have no ads. I HATE ads. AND to be sure, I am motivated to solve for the psychopaths in control. Guess You didn't bother actually reading any of My articles... This one is a good one:
Human Sovereignty in an Ethical Solutocracy
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/80/human-sovereignty-ethical-solutocracy
"What Human does not deserve leisure and industry of
interest, if (S)He chooses all behavior Ethically?"
"Revolution in ideas, not blood."
♥♥♥
"Did You give an oath and find it's bait and
switch? Well, there is no oath then, is
there?"
"ALL money systems promote the most psychopathic to
the top of the money/power heap - THEY will do ANYTHING to get there."
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can
put that down and pick up far better tools."
"The love of money is the root of all evil; remove
the soil in which the root grows..."
"If the universe is made of mostly "dark"
energy...can We use it to run Our cars?"
"If You want peace, take the PROFIT out of
war."
Pyra Gorgon • 21 hours ago
Homeless and destitute yet still able to create ProBoards, run Twitter and social media accounts with lots of blogs, and have Internet access? Amazing. Every homeless one I help is more worried about another pair of socks or a hot meal over an Internet connection and pontificating on the woes of dystopic society through social media.
As for your platitudes, again, you toss more at me, but without context they are just word soup. For instance,
"The ONLY tool They use is money, and I say We can
put that down and pick up far better tools."
I say they have far more tools than that, namely violence, lying, fear, social retardation by not teaching morality, deception, fraud, poisoning of the mind and body, creating system-evil constructs to enable grand scale racketeering, DNA corruption of children to weaken and imprint evil upon a person, satanic ritual abuses, etc. Yet, you stop at just "money". Not very thorough of an answer, Amaterasu.
If you want to pretend to be the Japanese sun goddess who stamps out evil, you need to discover every place it hides. Juss sayin'.
AmaterasuSolar • 20 hours ago
I have no idea why You are so hostile. FYI, I am blessed to have friends. I bounce around, sleeping on Their floors, using Their wifi, on a computer My sister begrudgingly got for Me (We're not much on speaking terms...). And also, FYI, all those "tools" would not be tools in a society where We remove the need for money and top-down controlmind. These are the twin towers to psychopaths in power.
And FYI... That is My signature, not "platitudes." Get off Your high horse. Maybe read what I have written, rather than choosing jerk behavior, eh?
Pyra Gorgon • 20 hours ago
I'm not being hostile. I am being to the point and this is my method when dealing with unknown elements that appear to be B.S.'ing me. Don't worry, I get nicer with further dialog once I understand I am not talking to a troll, a shill, a disinfo agent, a webbot AI prototype, or a garden variety idiot.
Okay, so all those lines are part of your signature. Didn't know that. I'll move on, then.
I don't have time to read all your stuff, but if I had to read just one thing, what would you have me read from your writings? Link please.
Be blessed, Amaterasu Solar.
AmaterasuSolar • 20 hours ago
My seminal piece, The End of Entropy. That got Me banned from (CIA-run) AboveTopSecret forums a number of years ago, I guess it was. It's the first piece (after the list of contents post) in this thread called The Abundance Paradigm Foundational Writings, and is an analysis, as opposed to an article:
tapyoureit.boards.net/thread/2/abundance-paradigm-foundational-writings
It may look longer than it is - large font makes it easier to read, but look longer. In fact, most of My writings are quite short.
I have been working to get this information to the tipping point for over 8 years. It is likely the reason I have been offered jobs (under the name corporation - the strawman name), but before I even fill out paperwork, before I give the SS#, I get given weird excuses and downright lies as an excuse why I don't have the job - IF I even manage to make contact beyond leaving copious messages on machines. Took Me nearly a decade to conclude the highest likelihood is that someOne does not want Me to succeed.
Pyra Gorgon • 19 hours ago
I read your work The End of Entropy.
You have my attention.
I think what you wrote struck me on a multitude of levels, some stand alone, some interconnecting, some incongruent, some synergistic, and some syncretistic.
Pyra Gorgon • 18 hours ago
Oh, and THANK YOU for widening my knowledge-base. I had no idea the word STIGMERGIC existed. So I had to go chase it down. I found that it was coined by Pierre-Paul Grasse in the 1950's and the best definition I could glean from the writings was , self-organises due to the collective input of large numbers of individual termites performing extraordinarily simple actions in response to their local environment. from ...
Good use of the word, Amaterasu Solar!
AmaterasuSolar • 17 hours ago
Humble thanks for reading! I am honored to have made an impression, and delivered a wee bit of knowledge. My definition of stigmergy is:
A system of governance based on the exchange of information within all societies between autonomous Individuals.
Our natural stigmergy is constricted with the artificial overlay of top-down controlmind (government).
Pyra Gorgon AmaterasuSolar • 17 hours ago
I can agree with that statement and perspective on things.
However, the thing with the termites from Pierre-Paul Grasse's observations ought to be considered, also. He did incorporate other parameters you neglect in your definition, namely, the simplicity of a mundane task that 'stigmergically' adds to those doing same around you, like termites chewing a tunnel in wood, bees forming comb and nursing brood, ants foraging, gnats seeking, and locusts swarming and landing/ bird swarm migratory patterns.
You have 'robots' do all sort of 'mundane' tasks, thus doing that stigmergically necessary 'mundane and simplistic tasks' you attribute to human society. I disagree. I believe humans will not do as you predict they will do 'stigmergically' and that the robots with the AI they are building will create that stigmergically positive communication society. Does this make sense to you? The attribution you give to creator rather than the ACTOR of it. As if the 'queen' of the hive controls all stigmergical tasks. They don't.
AmaterasuSolar • 16 hours ago
To be frank, Would love to have this convo on My forum... [smile] I don't see any "creator" or "queen..." The queen in an insect colony is for reproduction only, relying on stigmergy to take care of her, as one seed in the insects' parameters is to protect and take care of her. What I have is not so much robots doing the mundane...as I do having them fill in where We do not have enough Humans who WANT to do necessary work. Where stigmergy will be most beneficial is in problem-solving. One of Our seed parameters is to solve problems that affect Us. The leaders will emerge for each problem that might crop up, based on the information and ideas They offer relative to the problem at hand.
I am very much opposed to the Venus Project... Where the controlmind is AI and Human choices are reduced to mere preferences in what things They want. I think We can rise to better than that. [smile]
If You have time, You might want to read some of My articles on The Abundance Paradigm beyond that thread.
Pyra Gorgon • 16 hours ago
I'm familiar with Jacques Venus Project and all that jazz. I can honestly that I am enamored of the idea but realize it is not workable and rife with unintended consequences, nothwithstanding the obvious ignoring of elephant in the room.
I did read the rest of your writings on that thread. You had repetitive sections that facilitated a quicker purview. There are many points I differ from you on, but in the vision of it all, I am in full support of. It is utopic, really. But again, we are not taking the elephant in the room into account in our thinking about things.
As for your idea about the queen, I own the knowledge that she does far more than just breed and lay eggs. In bees, the queen regulates the mood and temperament of the colony. She also determines the hive memory of the worker bees and forager bees. Other bug colonies depending on purpose and place in nature have similar things the queen does besides just breed. The corollaries to this are parables spiritual in nature. I doubt you wish to go there yet, but later you must. Your "3 laws of ethics" are inadequate for a society to prosper by. You're going to have to revisit once laid foundations of your moral thinking, Amaterasu.
You can copy/paste this over to your forum or whatever. I am not ashamed of my words.
AmaterasuSolar • 7 hours ago
The reason I would rather be discussing things on My forum is that, with this old computer, for some reason, this page takes forever to load. The forum is much faster. LOL!
I don't see The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.) as a utopia. I see it merely as VASTLY better than what We have now. Not sure what elephants You see...
Relative to the queen... Does she not rely on information from her workers to determine moods, etc? Is she telepathic that this "hive memory" is disbursed? Or does she simply pass the data on to each worker that comes by?
Before I ask what is inadequate in the three Laws, I might ask what is the definition You have in this frame of "prosper?" Presently We are beset with "laws," the number of which no One knows, which make virtually everything We might do illegal somewhere. All of them either address the three Laws, or (the vast bulk of them) something directly or indirectly related with commerce/profit for some.
With the removal of money, with the end of accounting for Human energy added into a system that accounts for Human energy added, all the commerce/profit "laws" are moot, leaving a redundancy in a legal system of the three Laws. (In fact, the legal system is the loathsome vine that supports the twin towers to psychopaths in power, thwarting Ethics more often that it serves them.)
If all Humans chose Their behavior Ethically, within those three Laws, and with scant MOTIVE to break the Laws, what problem do You see arising?
Pyra Gorgon • 6 hours ago
Good morning, Amaterasu! Thank you for responding outside of your forum and also by not getting defensive, rather engaging in dialog. :-) I'll quote you to comment by line to keep it organized.
I don't see The Abundance Paradigm (T.A.P.) as a utopia. I see it merely as VASTLY better than what We have now. Not sure what elephants You see...
I do, and am sure most others would classify your TAP as a Utopic dream based upon existential, carnally-minded people. Personally, I think your TAP is a great idea in theory and if we could change that "elephant in the room" (which I'll address at the end of my response), such a thing would be heavenly for all and sundry. Really, to have leisure to do whatever instead of work like a slave for shelter, food, etc. opens up more mental capital for other pursuits...(maybe), free energy would definitely destroy money in it's current uses as fiat (as you posit, there would be no need for it given the paradigm you outline). I read the entire forum, from End of Entropy to Liberty & American Way. Getting an overview from all your words puts each article/chapter into a larger meta-message communication, I would say that you over-simplify and place too much emphasis just on the money aspect. We're going to tie this in later.
Before I ask what is inadequate in the three Laws, I might ask what is the definition You have in this frame of "prosper?"
"Prosper" means just that: to thrive, to develop spiritually into higher purposed beings mentally, emotionally; to grow happily to not worry and fret , get fat, enjoy life, having the land give up its bounty and blessings. To have many children in health and vitality. That sort of prosper is what I mean.
Presently We are beset with "laws," the number of which no One knows, which make virtually everything We might do illegal somewhere.
First off, men do not make "laws", that is a philosophical blunder and a spiritual blinder. Men make LEGALITIES. God makes Laws. Laws carry consequences, always. If you fall from a cliff, law of gravity extends immediate consequences. Moral laws carry consequences, also. They are internalized and corrupt the soul, but the consequences are evident. Ever wonder why really evil people look evil? Violating one of men's LEGALITIES only carries consequences if you are caught. Speed 30 miles over speed limit on an abandoned Texan road and nothing happens, no magical ticket appears and no cop drops from the sky to haul you off to jail. Why? Because legalities are meaningless unless some fool chooses to oppress another with them by application of force.
All of them either address the three Laws, or (the vast bulk of them) something directly or indirectly related with commerce/profit for some.
Now it's time to discuss that elephant in the room. Your 3 laws of ethics are (for those reading to follow along)
#1.Do not willfully hurt or kill anOther
#2.Do not willfully take or damage anOther's property
#3.Do not willfully defraud anOther
#4. Do not willfully lead another to violate 1-4.
You need #4. People in authority rarely do the evil themselves. Instead, they corrupt others through lying, deception, false narrative building, etc. To say defraud is covered in #3 misses the point, it is not fraud as it is interpreted there because fraud involves something related to something tangible: to defraud by writing a bad check, etc. To defraud an idea is called DECEPTION/DECEIT/ LYING (or other words denoting same) You need to separate fraud from deceit. Why? Because the forms of behavior are different, to over-simplify reduces the clarity and adds nothing because of its brevity. This #4 will also stop a lot of the order-follower nonsense that people thinks magically gets them off the morality hook for their actions.
Relative to the queen... Does she not rely on information from her workers to determine moods, etc? Is she telepathic that this "hive memory" is disbursed? Or does she simply pass the data on to each workers that comes by?
In honeybees, yes, she does rely on many factors: hive temp, hive activity, nurse bee hum on frames of brood, her own egg laying cycle, humidity, food availability, and whim. Sometimes the queen is grouchy. Can't tell you why. They work both ways, from drones workers and foragers sending signals, and the queen interpreting those and releasing pheremones to regulate hive activity. There is no telepathy, it is all done through chemical signals of pheremones, and vibratory patterns of wings, abdomen dancing, and such. The methods they use to communicate are easily disrupted: take the hive apart and the queen loses her built-up scents in the frames, causing colony stress and chaos. The queen passes info on through pheremones. Forager bees communicate via chemical signals AND vibratory dancing on the "front porch". I've studied them and have made some connections: foragers begin facing direction for start, if they wiggle their front legs alot it means it is a high fly and if they drag their abdomen it is a ground objective for the dance directions. Other things too, but the stigmergic reaction you think is not all instinctual programming, the 'hive memory" I refer to is not instinctual, but retained knowledge one generation of forager bees passes on to the next nurse bees as they graduate to foragers. This is why some chemical agents are so bad for bees: some give them dementia and they forget and must expend extra energy always "rediscovering" the flower patches and nectar rich spots. Not only that, but the young foragers seem unable to grasp what the dances mean.
Termites and ants do not have a complex society like honey bees so their stigmergic activities are closer to your visionary use of that word. But bees do have higher organization to their 'stigmergic' activities with the 'top down/ bottom up' process you envision with your global website for a solutocracy.
With the removal of money, with the end of accounting for Human energy added into a system that accounts for Human energy added, all the commerce/profit "laws" are moot...[trunc]...If all Humans chose Their behavior Ethically, within those three Laws, and with scant MOTIVE to break the Laws, what problem do You see arising?
Now for the elephant in the room you do not discuss even once:
Everything here did not magically form out of nothing, despite what idiotic evolutionists and other fairytale spinsters would have you believe. There is a Spirit, a Consciousness, a 'Higher Principle', GOD, the Uncaused Cause. God made everything and He did it for His purposes, not our own. Everything you witness in history, including all the ugly evil and suffering and such in the world today, has been for purpose and meaning. IT did not just happen because of dumb luck or contrived stupidity.
This is where your TAP idea runs afoul. The ELEPHANT in the ROOM: GOD. This is why TAP cannot work, because God has made things, including us, to not work within what you propose. Your 3 laws of ethics breaks down once you include PURE EVIL people into the equation: SATANISTS who believe "Do as thou wilt" is the all of their 'law'. These are the naturally evil people who are the psychopaths you rail against. What will your society do when a group of men decide to go marauding just to satisfy bloodlust? Some people enjoy watching others die because they love death. They are REBELLIOUS to the NATURAL ORDER, why would they follow YOUR 3 rules for ethics? What then? You now have sin entering your Utopic TAP paradigm. These people cannot be rehabilitated, they cannot be negotiated with, and they cannot be trusted.
The 3 laws of ethics are incomplete because we are more than physical carnal critters. How do you teach people spiritual principles they are not born with? Compassion, charity, love, forgiveness, mercy, truth, justice, equity, beauty, wisdom, understanding, genuineness...these and many more are all spiritual in nature. They are easily taught but difficult to learn without life experience. This is why the world is so evil ugly and bad: it is the hurdle to overcome to achieve that godlike character. In your TAP world, we would have nothing to 'overcome' and as they say, "Idle hands are the workshop of the devil". What about people who just do not have any interests other than breeding all day, eating and getting drunk and high? Maybe they dont EVER want to design something or maybe they think programming and helping others is boring and stupid. Lazy is learned behavior because humans are animals and conservation of energy is a paramount instinctual attitude. Animals don't just run around building stuff because it pleases their eyes. They build from necessity and stop once sufficient. People of higher spirit do not do that, how do you reconcile those two types of people?
Lastly, GOD is moving with planned purpose. Things are coming to a close, and your "TAP" reminds me of something God's elect children might do in organizing their society with God being their origin point for ethics and morality. Only a moral and good humanity can affect the changes of TAP.
I'm telling you right now, expect this, that the future holds a One World Government, a one world leader, and a one world religion under a one world false prophet. There will be death, fire, destruction on grand scale such as the world has not seen, the ecocide of our nature will be complete, famine and starvation will be prevalent, there will be no natural anything as everything is corrupted beyond recognition, stupidity and ignorance will the the standard narrative, fear and terror will guide choices and morality rivers of blood will mark the brutality and evil, and then the end of this before it is remade. This is why every utopia does not work: God did not create this world to be a utopia. And since God is the author of reality, we cannot change this.
AmaterasuSolar • 5 hours ago
Thank You for Your detailed reply. I will get into My spiritual experience in a bit, but for now, I will address the psychopaths. Let Us consider the fact that about 1% of Us are genetically psychopathic (primary). Another 5%ish are secondary psychopaths, created through mind control/severe abuse at the hands of the primary psychopaths. Without money, the only power over Others a psychopath has lies in personal charisma. If the Laws are upheld by 94% of Us (or even 90%...) even a group of psychopaths are a piffle in the scheme of things. With free energy and the web to report things, problems, the 90-94% could descend upon the group freely - transportation would be free for all, after all - and solve the problem Ethically the group is creating. Taking Them out of social circulation (locking Them up), trying Them via the web, setting Ethical consequences.
As for defrauding... I see that as meaning ANY harmful mis/disinformation spread willfully.
As for God... I had an experience, one day, a few years back now, where suddenly... I was everything. All time, all space, all dimensions - and simultaneously, I was nothing. No time, no space, no dimension. When I "returned" (if that is the appropriate term) I had awareness. Not of the details of anyOne's life (having been all Beings...), but that Consciousness is God creating the Now. That all things are Consciousness at some level of awareness. That We therefore are co-Gods co-creating the Now. Free will is the choice to create better, nothing much, or worse. That We, when awareness hits the tipping point that We CAN create (co-create) better on this planet, WILL.
I have no need for any Other to believe this. What One sees in spirituality is Theirs. But surely it cannot be argued that Now is not a culmination of what Each has chosen in the past. It is what I work with, and I have chosen to step up to the plate and create, to the best of My ability, better on this planet.
Pyra Gorgon AmaterasuSolar • 4 hours ago
I'm enjoying this dialog with you. It seems we are going somewhere meaningful. Hopefully other's might 'stigmergically' add their own thoughts, objections, praises, concerns, etc. to our dialog. Let us put your theory of human ideological stigmergy to the test!
Lat things first: I am not going to proselytize you or anything like that. My spirituality is foundational, not 'fundamental'; regenerative, not 'conservative'. I hold to relationship over revelation, and meaning over means. The definition for my 'religion' is found in James 1:26-27, "26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Hope that helps you understand my position and starting point for my perspective, Amaterasu. Like you, I do not "need" you to believe as I do. Each person shall work out their own salvation in fear and trembling. ;-) Good luck to you on your path!
As for your disagreement about fraud vs. deception/ deceit, I cannot say that I find your answer satisfactory. You may understand it with demanding clarity, but others not so much. You are going to have to use more words because things are a bit more complicated than just a few laws of ethics. There is a FOUNDATIONAL difference between the connotative use of FRAUD and Lying. Yes, fraud involves lying, but not all lying involves fraud because fraud pertains to things not thoughts/ ideas. You 'defraud' someone who buys your house and you do not tell them about the termite damage to the subfloor. You have also LIED to them by OMISSION, but that is not the same as deceiving them into thinking termites are actually GOOD for the house and subfloor. Now if they directly ASK you if the house has termites and you say NO, then you have defrauded them through use of deception. Do you get the subtle yet critical difference where the LYING is really corruption of truth and FRAUD is the use of lying to gain worldly things, like money, sex, prestige, whatever? I'm not going to belabor this point, perhaps just meditate on this point some and go from there. Like an onion, it's layers. ;-)
Let Us consider the fact that about 1% of Us are genetically psychopathic (primary). Another 5%ish are secondary psychopaths, created through mi...[trunc]
Okay. I don't know if that is right or not, we'll go with those numbers you posted for sake of discussion. Because I do know that they exist, they can teach others to be like themselves, but it seems the ability to teach others psychopathy is because of the dark occultic knowledge of the human psyche, something you toy with in your TAP philosophy. "Stigergy" is a phenomena that can be used to evil effect, as our social engineers and mind control operators have done. Just as morality is taught, so is psychopathy.
You have an insurmountable hurdle to your TAP and that is the ORIGIN of it. How do you start such a thing given the current situation of psychopaths, the laws and idiocy of people, the mind control and violence? Let us for sake of argument say that ALMIGHTY GOD came down, wiped out all the evildoers, wicked, psychopaths, and degenerates. We now have a totally screwed up world trashed out by the past human history, but now evil has been eradicated, like a HARD RESET might do....NOW you install your TAP paradigm...you and others like yourself go out, proselytize others to your rationale and reasoning, and the process begins. Money is gone, etc. TAP can really take off then...no obstacles! YAY for humanity....we begin to clean up the world, find solutions to big ugly problems like Fukushima and global fish deaths in poisoned oceans...cities are rebuilt, economic principles change from scarcity-based competition to collaborative efforts where each gets "according to their need" (sounds communist in language, doesn't it?)...
...but ALMIGHTY GOD ain't coming down to wipe out the bad guys just so we can go do our own thang. So we are stuck here at the starting line but cant get past the waving of the checkered flag. How do you wipe out all the greedy evil wicked folk who will jam up your TAP paradigm? I'm telling you, they will NEVER go along with your ideas because your ideas would make a happy world and these types WORSHIP DEATH, misery, perversion, and destruction. They have demons, whatever. They're bad apples, through and through. Some desire things just so others cannot have them, not because they themselves want them.
And where are all these robots going to come from? What incentive do people have to donate the robots they are making, or anything else outside the current money paradigm? Who will be those guards in those prisons you mention to lock up the psychopaths? Where is your moral authority to lock up another like an animal in a cage? Humans are made in the image of GOD, the penalty for psychopathy is death, not incarceration. In fact, no where in any of God's law does it proscribe for incarceration and the reason for this is because it opens up too many unintended consequences for perverse incentive and for spiritual and emotional corruption. In your TAP, what is to keep such a thing workable? I would not work a prison even if paid, how many will go do such things being UNPAID? It's ridiculous to imagine that people would engage in such without clear gain.
I love your idea and am trying to sort out how to springboard it into action, but I keep finding more and MOAR objections and incongruencies that do not fit reality. Reality is the final arbiter of such things; has reality ever shown such a paradigm to exist? What do we have to draw from for reference point historically?
Let's draw more minds into this discussion, would you mind this?
AmaterasuSolar • 3 hours ago
The difference between abundancism and communism is that, in communism One is expected to give according to ability and receive according to need. In abundancism, One is expected to give according to Ones bliss and receive according to One's desire. Also, in communism there is the top-down structure still putting Some above Others persistently, while in abundancism the structure is bottom-up, with no One above anOther except in knowledge and ideas in solving for problems, and then only while the problem persists.
The progression I see is:
1. Share awareness to the tipping point of what We CAN co-create, the Laws, and all
2. Grassroots, We experiment with free energy, offering successes freely to All (a lesser probability by far is One in "the know" releasing the information to Humanity...)
3. When free energy is flowing, the cost of things will drop...and drop...and drop to the point that it is more energy than it's worth to collect the penny for the house, the car, etc.
4. Those who care and can create the servers and network for governance, maybe have a contest for the best open-source site to serve the needs of governance
5. Those who care and can create robots to fill in where needed
6. Specifically withdraw consent from the systems in place now, the ones that inherently promote psychopaths to power (this can happen at any point along the line - I have withdrawn My consent already)
In the end, We will create this better system.
While I agree that the psychopaths in control would not "go for it," if 90% of Us did not consent to Their systems, what power would They have? They NEED Our consent, outright or implied (by virtue of being told in esoteric ways, not fully informing Us, unEthically assuming that We have enough data, and Us not specifically saying We do not consent).
As for the third Law... Lying to "deceive" without some material gain is something I guess I don't grasp. Only in a spiritual sense, and only if One has the notion that what One believes in that realm is important, would "deceiving" be important to One. Personally, I see All of Us responsible for Our own discernment in that realm. What One believes does not create in the Now; only the behavior One chooses. So in the Now, defrauding for material gain is what I see the Law as being, and the only socially important aspect.
Incentives for all things, including creating robots, comes from the love of doing it (and I know LOTS of People who love to - or would love to if They could afford it - create robots) and the social currency it brings. If You loved to create robots and there was a problem a robot could solve, would You not offer Your skills to the end of solving the problem for the reputation, the thanks, the lauds, the love, the fame, the bragging rights, and all that, that You would receive?
Social currency is accounted for, not by token, but in the hearts and minds of Each of Us.
I do not speak in morals - they are subjective. In some places it is VERY immoral for a woman to wear a bikini in public. In other places, it is not so much. Where is Our Ethical "authority" in solving for One who has broken any Law of Ethics to the point of confinement? I think it is clear that, even in nature, steps in the societies are taken to solve for problems an individual might create, including the killing of said individuals. As I say We have no need of killing such Individual Humans, that being sentient and sapient, We can make higher choices, confinement will solve for the problem Individual. It is an Ethical solution.
Suppose the confinement is automated... And it could be a house and garden or whatever else the Ones who care choose. One possibility might be that the One confined must remain so until no One cares enough about Them being confined to press a button every day to keep the confinement continuing. I leave the details of each case to be determined by Those who care. I expect many creative solutions. And there may even be Ones who would love to care for the needs of the incarcerated. But I don't think They are necessary.
As for "history" (what We know of it - MUCH is not available to Us as a whole), We have game-changers. Never in history have We had free energy. Never in history have We had robots. Never in history have We had the web. Therefore, this has no point We can point to and say, "See?" This is uncharted.
Pyra Gorgon • an hour ago
Hiya Amaterasu;
(please go ahead and copy/paste our convo over to your forum if you like. I did join it and mentioned our conversation to some to see if they would add their understanding. You mentioned stigmergy... ;-)